New Prog

[Ronny Wærnes]

Any thoughts about any of the new bands around? Prog has had some growth in popularity in some years now, and new bands has also appeared.

Upsilon Acrux is very technilcal, but I am not sure how they feel about their music. Check this:

I am not sure if Dillinger Escape Plan can be labelled as prog, but they have become a small favourite of mine. Check how different from the above they perform:

[Alan Holmes]

Well, New Prog is a difficult label - what does it involve?

On the one hand you have groups who play in the studiously reproduced style of 70s prog groups, which to me seems the exact opposite of being progressive - groups like The Tangent, Flower Kings etc.
Then you have the likes of Godspeed! You Black Emperor and their various connected groups, who play extended instrumental compositions, without harking back to a previous "golden age"
Then there are people like Guapo or Koenjihyakkei, who take the RIO groups or Magma as a starting point to actually head off in interesting directions.
...and as you say, there are people like Dillinger Escape Plan and other groups coming out of the metal scene, like Meshuggah for example.
....and some people even claim Radiohead to be prog..

So I'm not really sure what "prog" means today - is it still an abbreviation of progressive, and as such more of an approach to the music than a style, or has it just become another marketing tag in much the same way as "indie" no longer has any connection to the original abbreviation of independent?

[Ronny Wærnes]

Well I should have added a questionmark in the headline. I am not sure it should be a lable, but you are quite right that it is important to differ between those bands that are using the old style and those who really are progressive in the sense of the word. I am more excited when I hear something new (when talking about prog) than if I hear someone using old recepies. When using the label prog today, I have a feeling that most people would include old and new bands using the old ways of making long pieces of high technical quality and complex composition with no improvisations whatsoever.

[Michael Eisenberg]

Ronny...u said......When using the label prog today, I have a feeling that most people would include old and new bands using the old ways of making long pieces of high technical quality and complex composition with no improvisations whatsoever.

You are absolutely right. There is this festival in the states called NEARfest that caters to the Prog community (ghetto?) here. They try very hard to book bands from every ridiculous sub genre under the Prog umbrella. From symphonic, to "chops are us" fusion, to prog metal, to ambient ala Steve Roach and Robert Rich, to RIO...they try and hit it all. It's admirable actually, but the unfortunate by product of such a booking policy is, it really brings out the worst in people. Opinions abound (and quite strong one's, and sometimes not very nice/boarding on venemous one's) on the various boards and e-mail lists about the RIO people bashing the sympho heads and visa versa. (Disclaimer...I myself am guilty of this occasionlly, but I try to bite my tongue most of the time...really...I do)

Quite often at this fest, there is a mass exodus of people in the middle of sets. The uincorn/hobbit loving neo-prog fans (a joke...nothing personal to anyone;) ) run from the theater screaming duing, say a Guapo performance...and the snobby RIO heads (a joke...nothing personal to anyone ;) ) skulk out during, say a Flower King or Pallas show.

The prog ghetto is really a divided and polarized place...and sometimes the discourse between the two get nasty. Anyway...I mention this because I agree with Ronny...the general "Prog" fan is more steeped in the past...wishing to hear mostly the music that pays homage to such groups as Yes, ELP, Genesis, etc.. There is a constant battle with others that like to define Prog as meaning the music, no matter what kind it is...should move forward...and to forget the past.. That group, I believe is a much smaller one (which is probaly why NEARfest usually only book 1, or at the most 2 bands that the RIO fan would kill to see)

...anyway...just the way I see it...

best
Michael

[Nick M]

I checked out some (well, two) of the bands mentioned here via their myspace pages and listened to a few tracks online. The results of this research:

Guapo- quite like what I heard. Probably very good live.

Flower Kings- atrocious. Truly appalling. I defy anyone here to defend them.

Sorry for such a negative comment but sometimes you just have to unequivocally reject things- anything less is dishonest.

[Michael Eisenberg]

Hi Nick....I"ve seen Guapo three times and it wasnt till the third time that they really came across for me as a great live band. The first two times the sound was less than optimal so everything was pretty much a muddy mess but the last time, at the RIO festival the sound guys had it together and it was fantastic. Lots of Magma moves, albiet more in a pummeling/in your face way...which is fine by me...but there were also lots of moments of loud, searing blasts of noise amidst the zeuhl and avant prog things they were doing. If you get a chance, I would definitely say check them out live.

The various members also have some really interesting side projects like the Carousel of Headless Horsemen, Nought and the Cardiacs (the Guitarist from Guapo is in the Cardiacs...so I'm guessing Guapo would be considered a side project for him.)

...as for the Flower Kings...you comment is accurate...to the power of nth

best
Michael

[Nick M]

Michael-

I had clocked the Miasma and the Carousel of Headless Horses connection, but was completely unaware of the Cardiacs link... I'm guessing the guitarist in question must be Kavus Torabi, who joined Cardiacs 2 or 3 years ago- Cardiacs are an old fave of mine, so that definitely piques my interest in Guapo a little more.

I've never really got into Magma (hold the flamethrowers, folks) so wouldn't have thought of that comparison- the Guapo stuff sounds rather more linear (rhythmically speaking... maybe I could say 'krauty') than any Magma I've heard. Although with Magma it's the vocals I've always found somewhat offputting, rather than anything in the music.

cheers

Nick

[Michael Eisenberg]

Yeah...its Kavus...in a really harsh, noisey, feedbackish mode. Just so u are aware, he's not on any of the albums, although they have a new one coming out that I heard about last April...surprised it's not out yet. It's going to be on the Neurot label which, I understand specializes in avant-metal acts.

The Magma similarities are pretty prevelant in the way both bands lean towards these martial, staccato type rhythms...although Guapo is much more of a Rock band against Magma's jazz fusion leanings.

I'm a huge (and biased) fan of Magma so...I can't really say anything bad about them. Suffice to say...I learned to appreicate their vocals last. To me, the vocal arrangements with their numerous intricate layers are nothing short of genius!! I know this might be a bit of a stretch...but I sometimes hear Gil Evans type orchestrations in the way Magma vocals are arranged.

best
Michael

[DrGoon]

I think that the mindset of defining groups as either "aping the style of 70s prog rock" or "doing something progressive" is in fact the crux of the problem. It is possible to draw influences from the past and create something quite new and exciting, even when those influences are stylistically to the fore. Perhaps challenging music tends to attract people with an OCD like fetish to fit all music into "useful" categories. I'm often guilty of using such labels when trying to communicate to others familiar with them, but I try and avoid the soccer tribe mentality that sometimes seems prevalent in "prog" circles.

I'm not much of a fan of Flower Kings, but I do like Pallas, who are regularly dismissed as 'neo'. Late period Magma bores me but I love Koenjihyakkei. Why do so many 'prog' fans dislike 'punk' - they're regularly related. If 'death growl' vocals didn't make me giggle like a girl, I'd probably enjoy Meshuggah more. Radiohead owes more to 'Krautrock' than to 'prog' in their more recently exhibited influences - which suits them. Good music is good music no matter what the prevailing fashion label is... its just unlikely for it to come from the mass production lines of modern hip-hop labels or Simon Cowell/Fuller TV shows.

[Luis Forner]

Ronnie, I think you must enter in the "Prog downloads" forum...